WHEN, WHERE AND HOW
Part Two

an interview with Tony McCallum, Australian cattleman and stockdog trainer

"People attending one of my clinics will ask, 'How do you get a dog to work that won't work?' I don't. You don't. If it was up to any human to teach a dog how to work stock, we would eventually end up backwards. Why do we use dogs? Because we don't understand what it is about them (that enables them to control stock). I'm in a happy position in saying I can't train dogs to work. My method is when, where and how. The dogs must know the how. If you've got a dog that knows how to work, I sure can show you how to get him to understand when to work and where to work.

"A lot of times, people at the end of a clinic say, ‘I wish I hadn't paid you to tell me this because I should've thought of it myself.' Well, that's the best thing about most things. If someone comes up with something simple that works, everyone says that they could've invented it. I don't mean to say that I invented this method. A lot of people do it to varying degrees, I suppose, with all different sorts of animals. It's an approach. I don't want to teach you a method.

“Some people are much happier to buy an electric collar. They think, 'I've got this thing; I'm now going to create a dog.' But with no decent attitude to train it's not worth anything. It's not worth one penny. So there's an attitude — (my method) is just an attitude change. If people would change their attitude towards working with a dog, they can keep their own (training) method.

"We battle to breed these good stock dogs. Why are we doing that? We could breed Labs or Poodles who have high trainability, if what we wanted was a dog we could train to work stock. Why not train a poodle? Now, Poodles have a much higher trainability rate than nearly any other dog. We don't work cattle with them. Why? They've been bred for years to be trainable. Why don't we go out there and tell them left, right, stop, advance, bite, heel, back, over here, block a gate? Because you would have to be doing every single thing and spend two years of training. And then spend every day of your life thinking every single stock move for that dog.

“The reason we don't do that is because we have collies and Kelpies and that sort of thing. We breed them right, to want to work stock. And then we tell them, 'You're not going to do that, you're going to go left when I tell you and you're going to go right when I tell you. And I'm gonna do as much as I can to undo all breeding and then when you're not a very good dog, I'm gonna blame you for being disobedient!' So I say don't do that. Work on what they've got, allow them the how, and adopt an attitude of being blessed with a pup that has the will to work in him. I have no room for pups that don't have that, they don't do anything for me. Just get rid of them and the quicker the better.

“When you decide a pup is the dog you want, just think, 'Roy, you appear to have everything I want. Yes, it looks like you'll block the front end; looks like when you've beaten something you're going to let it go back into the mob.' Marvelous! You know at 16 weeks of age that he's doing everything you want. But the people say, `Oh, he's doing everything I want, but I'm not telling him what to do.' I just feel if they would commit to the attitude that being in charge is deciding the when and where, we don't have to decide how, give the dog that. The how is his."

The Right Pup

"That's why I put my puppy in with goats or sheep at eight weeks, ten weeks, 12 weeks, 14 weeks, and 16 weeks. I like to see what have I got to work with and I want to see it raw, so at this stage he might know his name and my children might have played with him, and that's all he will know. I'm looking for the rudimentary instinct. Now it's going to be in a puppyish shape, you have to understand. The trick is not only to look, but to observe.

Don't just look and say, 'Oh, yes, he's run straight through the middle. He chased that one. He took a bit of fur off the hind leg and he's run complete amuck.' Observe what he's trying to do. Are the instincts there?

"There's the pup that will just run straight up and grab the side of something. I don't like that kind. Especially if he does it with his little hackles up, sort of a fear bite. He just runs and grabs on the side. However, if those little legs are going their hardest and you see that little head sort of pointing to the front end, but he just can't get there so he leans up and takes a hold, there's a big difference although the outcome is exactly the same. You have to think not just, 'Oh, yes, he hung off the side.' You need to consider, `Did he intend to hang off the side? Was he caring where that thing was going? Was there ever such a little instinct that said I must turn this back?' It can be ever so minute, but you will see it. At 16 weeks I will part with them (if they don't show working instincts). I'm not declaring that everyone should do this. If you've only got one dog and you want to love him and cart him around in your truck, that's all very well. I've got a big team of dogs and I've got a lot of work to do and I don't want to be feeding one until he's two years old and then find out that he's still not going to work.

"You have to observe. Watch the very first time the pup gets to the front of stock, when three or four sheep or goats pull up and that little pup is in front of them. What does he do? Now, if he just gets there and the instinct dies and he acts like, `Oh, what was I doing?', I don't mind if he runs off. He's finished. The work instinct had simply shut off. I'll have another look at that pup at ten weeks. But it's a different thing if, even at eight weeks, he got there (to the front of the stock) and actually stayed locked on to the sheep, but those sheep advanced on him and he ran away, and then turned again to his sheep. If he actually gave ground and went back indicating, 'Yes, my instinct to work is still here but this is what I'm going to be,' I'll part with that pup. I've trained a lot of dogs and I did use to let this type grow up. But of the ones that at eight weeks just gave ground but were still `hooked', I've never seen one that wouldn't do that at 10 years old.

"I watch for the very first time the pup actually makes a cast. It might not be the first go when it's half play, it might be the second day when the instinct goes, 'Click, yes work!' and there might be that little break to go to the head of stock. Now, you have some that run straight at the stock. I don't want that pup. There are some that run out, hit the fence and go right around and lie down out there. The very day he does that I'm finished with him. Then there's that one that heads for the stock, but as he starts to trot, he just arcs out enough to get to the front. That I like.

“Sometimes people will say, 'I thought I saw that but the next time I took him out he ran straight up and grabbed the first one he came up to.' I'll ask, `So, which go was this? 'Oh, about the third time.' (By that time) excitement rules — it's not raw instinct anymore. By the third go, what happens with most pups is, 'Yes! I remember this!' See, it's no longer that little instinct of, 'how will I work stock.' We now have association, not raw instinct. The pup thinks, 'Oh, yes, I'm dropped in this pen and those goats are going to run and I'm going to chase them.' So any of those raw instincts to work are now gone. I say, don't worry about the third go. You tell me what he did the first time he reacted to stock. Not reacted, barked and ran away — I don't mind if they do that on the first day. It's like, 'Oh, my goodness, some big eagle is coming to get me or something!' That's common sense; I don't mind that. Keep an eye out for the day you actually see the pup's head go down and it says, 'work.' That will save you 18 months of fooling around. It also saves you if you are intending to breed your own dogs. You soon find out that what you are left with are dogs that have the right instinct.

"The dog must have the right temperament. I would sooner have a slightly less talented dog with a good calm, workmanlike temperament than the prima donna who's all talent but when an airplane flies over he wees on himself and his hair stands on end, and you can't wave your hand at him because he's afraid. You can't work with those dogs day in and day out. As for temperament, when I pick a pup up, I like the pup that doesn't care. He's born knowing that life is here, just to be lived. A dog with good temperament is not a dog that runs up and jumps up on your leg wanting to lick your face. He's as demented as the dog that wants to run away. He should just be a steady dog.

“I don't mind if perhaps when I start moving cattle in front of a dog, he says, `This is me.' It's the only time I like to see a dog have any predisposition to being addicted to something. I don't mind my dogs being workaholics, but not to the point that it would cost them. You should be able to straight away call them off that work. If you have a workaholic and you work on him from a youngster to settle him, which I do, to say, 'Yes, I love that about you, but there are times where we'll just leave that go.' Any other paranoid behavior I don't like. I don't like them to be softened by anything. People are silly enough to encourage little idiosyncrasies. I feel anything you don't ever want your dog to do, never allow him to do. I will not tussle with a pup with a rag. People say, 'Well, I'm doing that to get him interested in working stock.' But, rags do not behave as stock behaves! If I don't want a dog to jump up on me when he's older then I don't want him to jump on me when he's eight weeks old."

Training Starts When The Pup Is Brought Home

"If I buy a pup I start to teach it the day I get him. On the trip home, he rides next to me, perhaps inside my jacket. He gets used to my smell. I talk to him so he gets used to my voice. When we arrive home I don't just put my seven week pup in a cage. No, no, no! We now have three minutes in which we can form the basis of ten years of training.

“How do you do that? I take that pup out of the car. I get in an area where there's nothing he can get into or under because I don't want him hiding. I want him in a area where the only thing he knows is me. I put that pup down on the ground and I stand there and watch him. If he cries, 'Oh, oh, oh,' as I stand there, I say, `It's all right mate.' He knows that voice after three or four hours in the car. He knows nothing else — nothing smells familiar; nothing sounds familiar. There's no visual stimulus of anything except me, and that little pup trots over and sits on my boot. Pups always do. He might run off, have a little wee first, but if it's in an area where he can't get into or under anything, he'll come to the only thing he knows. As he starts to trot that five feet to me, I go, 'Wheo, wheet,' which is my `come' whistle, and say his name. As he sits on my boot, I'll say, `Sit, good dog.' So I've taught him his name, 'come,' 'sit.' And from here we're going to have an everlasting relationship.

“When he comes to me, I put my hand on him, reassure him and walk away. I wait until he has another excursion, another look around. Next time that little pup looks up, I go, 'Wheet, sit, good boy.' I pick him up and put him in the cage he's going to stay in that night. I try to make sure the pup had nothing to eat before I picked him up so he's got nothing to throw up in the car. I put that little pup in the pen and I reach across to a little eggnog I've made up for him. I put that bowl in there and he thinks, `Boy, I haven't eaten today.' As he smells the food and runs toward it, I put my finger under his chin and I go 'Wheet,' (my stop whistle) and his little seven week bottom sits on the ground. I take my finger from under his chin and say, 'Yes,' and he eats. I shut the little cage and go inside the house. That's a pup's first association with Tony McCallum. I'm a friend. I'm the only thing here he knows. I'm showing him: I don't hurt you or harm you. I don't actually make a big fuss of you. I can stop you from eating. I can allow you to eat. I can call you to me and I can place you somewhere. You are in my pack and you are quite low down, mind you. But I'm a benefactor not a dictator.

"If he squeaks, I come out and shake him. I don't like whining at night. I always set that little pup's cage at the back door and if I have to get up five or six times that night, it's nothing. I just come out. I get him by the side of his little head, 'Ahhtt, quiet!' and a lot of times, he wonders, `Oh, my goodness, what's that?' Normally, by morning he's tired like me and he stops that squeaking. It's, `Oh, I've got to be quiet."'

Starting the Pup

"I put a lot more confidence in pups than people will give them credit for. They're really nervy. I like to be out of the small pen as quickly as I can because there are too many limitations. Stock don't behave as stock in there. When one goes to break, it's gonna hit that fence before the dog blocks it. So, they (pups) start learning bad habits.

"1 never put a pup in a yard and start working. I sit down and play with him and if he starts to run off, I just lay him down, until he diverts his eyes from stock to me. And when he's given (in) to me for two seconds, then I just stand up and go "wheet" and move the stock. And people, does that make a big difference! Even if he only looked at me for a second — that makes all the difference. I've decided to work the stock. The pup hasn't decided that, since he's off his chain, he can chase the sheep in the pen or go under the fence to the cattle up on the hill. How is the dog's realm, when and where, that's my realm. So I decide the when and I decide the where.

“If I let that little pup out and he's trotting around and having ,a sniff and he goes to run into that yard and work those sheep before I start, I'll take a little hold of him, drag him away until he decides to just divert his attention (from the stock). That's all I want. I'll open the gate and say, `pup, pup, pup.' He trots over and through the gate. I'll settle him down inside and, again, it takes a lot longer to describe than to actually do. People say, 'Oh, I don't know if I've got all that time.' I say, Well, often I've got about four minutes of daylight, and I will do each and every one of these things in that four minutes.

"Some people, after 10 minutes of training, think, 'I'm now going to chase this pup until I catch him and teach him I'm finished.' (Instead of chasing him) when you finally get the stock into a corner or the pup's got them against a fence or something, then you can walk over and put your hand around his neck and say, 'side' (McCallum's recall command). Pull him off of the stock, pick him up and tell him, 'good boy,' because he has come, even though you had to make him do it.

"I always start my cattle dogs on sheep. I like to look at pups so young that if I would have them in on cattle at 14 weeks, one pow! and there's the best pup I've ever seen with his neck busted. So, it's goats or sheep. Normally I only use five or six in the pen so they're easy to control. When I'm taking him out of that pen, I would go to an acre. But, I don't just open the gate and use those same ones that the pup's been chasing around. I will take eight or ten head and put them in the acre and work them with an older dog so that I know they are completely right enough so that they're not just going to be running off the first time they see a pup. I put them in the pen, get that little pup going back and forth, open the gate, walk out like that's an adult dog. And, amazement of amazement, most pups at five months old will just bring the stock wherever I go.

"If this is your first pup, you can't do this. If you haven't got an older dog, it just means human-breaking your sheep. You're going to need half a dozen sheep or goats that know you. Actually take them out to that little paddock, feed them at the same spot just for two days. When you head out to that paddock, you know they're going to that spot. As you go through the gate, they're going to go and check for feed. When that little pup comes out the gate, I'm going over toward the spot where the stock had been fed so by the time they get there and realize there's no feed that little pup has caught up with them.

"Now if the pup starts to run up but he's not arcing out right but heads a bit straight for them, don't stand there and yell and chase and throw rocks. It's not needed. Step quicker and go straight past the sheep and put yourself up here (at the head of the group) and he's come right to the right spot. If I had used an older dog that day, I would have held them up two or three times near the gate, so just as I come out of the gate the stock, being stock, will pause, 'Where's that dog?'

“Now, if the pup is quick enough to get there, well and good. If he's not, I step straight to the lead. If the lead keeps pushing up, I just keep stepping out. Step to one side and if the pup keeps pushing up and you think he's going to push them straight past you, you can either yell or straight away just try to bend your sheep, just turn them. Keep bending the stock until the pup's instinct clicks back in, 'Oh, I'm working. (I need to) just get off that chase.' And then you simply stay with it —'come by, come by' or 'away, away.'

“If you go out one day and he's just gone berserk and biting heels and noses, don't make him be wrong. All you can say is, 'get him, get him.' Because you see, it's just a matter of (taking him out of the small area) a day too early. Rather than think, 'I'm gonna shoot this pup,' try again. You may even need to go back to the small pen for a day or two.

"You stay in charge of the when and where. That gives you that feeling of, `The dog actually knows more than me, but I decide when he's going do it.' And you can feel good about that. If you have a dog that has the ability to work, proceed with that dog and work out how you can get him to do all those things he was born with on command from you. Avoid what you don't want; create situations for the dog to work; and get on with it."